Heroes of Healing: Celebrating Nurses and Leading Change in Healthcare
April 30, 2024 | Episode 15
Producer’s Note: The following is an AI-generated transcript of The Wellness Conversation, an OhioHealth Podcast
SPEAKERS: Jamie Cunningham, CNO, Edwin Clark. RN, Lindsey Gordon, Marcus Thorpe
00:14
Welcome back to the wellness conversation and OhioHealth Podcast. I'm Marcus Thorpe.
00:18
And I'm Lindsay Gordon. In this episode, we are celebrating the nurses of OhioHealth. During this National Nurses Week, if you know a nurse in your family or your friend group you already know they are wired in a unique way. They are wired to provide care for others, even under pressure and in stressful situations. Joining us today a pair of nurses at different stages of their careers. Jamie Cunningham, the Chief Nursing Officer and Vice President of patient care services at OhioHealth Marion General Hospital and Hardin Memorial Hospital. And Edwin Clark is a nurse in the silver tower and OhioHealth Riverside Methodist Hospital. Thank you both so much for being here this morning. And Happy Nurses Week.
01:01
Thank you excited to be here.
01:02
Yeah, me too. Yeah, we hope you feel the love this week. And really every week, you all deserve it for everything you do for patients and each other.
01:10
Yeah, I always hear as we're walking around the hospitals that the nurses run the hospitals. And so it's great to have you both here to kind of talk about your work, your passion, and then maybe encouraging other people to consider nursing as a career. I think that's a big part of what we're doing. So let's get started. Jamie, let's start with you, a leader at OhioHealth. You've gone from certainly working bedside and doing all of the work that goes with that to now leading a team of nurses. Can you talk about your journey? What was it that initially started for you that said, this is the career I want? This is where I want to be? Yeah,
01:42
I hear people talking about how they got into nursing. And some people had this love from basically infancy like Cynthia Latner, yesterday was talking about how she had this plastic stethoscope and she would go around and listen to everyone's heart and her family. And it was just the sweetest story. And I do not have that same story. But I got into nursing kind of midway through my first college degree, when I realized I wasn't quite in the right field. And I wanted to do something that combined kind of giving back compassion and that servant leadership that we talked a lot about it OhioHealth with a science piece of nursing that I also really love. So it was a really awesome fit for me. And when I started nursing, I got really involved in shared governance, and had some awesome mentors. And that's really how I got to learn about operations and leadership. And that was kind of my, my foot in the door. So whenever I'm talking to anyone, not just nursing, I always encourage them to get at the table, use your voice, because that's how you get involved. And it can open up lots of things that you didn't even know I had been there.
02:41
You mentioned Cynthia Latney who is our senior vice president of Chief Nursing, our executive, so really the leader of the nursing organization, and certainly a big supporter of the work that's happening at all of our care sites.
02:53
Yeah and Edwin, as a nurse as well tell us about how you got started in your career. And maybe that moment when you knew that this was for you?
03:01
So my story. I also I didn't dream of being a nurse as a kid. I was actually after, during my first degree, I was working in the coffee shop here at Riverside. And I had befriended some of the orthopedic nurse practitioners, and they talked about their job just resetting joints and bones and suturing people back together. And I said, that sounds fun, I want to do that. And they're like, you can but you have to be a nurse first. And then after that you have more schooling, I said, sold that sounds like fun. So I actually became a nurse to eventually go and be an orthopedic nurse practitioner. I've since decided that's not what I want to do. But once I decided to be a nurse, I got a job as a tech and then just the impact even you make as a PSA on the floor just like I'm in the right thing, people. They're not always appreciative, but they are so appreciative when you're just taking care of them. And they're not their families aren't I'm just like, I like this. This is for me.
03:55
Yeah that's awesome. And I love that everybody's journey is different, right?
03:59
Absolutely. I think it's so cool. As you get to know people who work for OhioHealth and make up the OhioHealth family. People have had different roles within the organization. And I love to hear that you started in the coffee shop at Riverside. And now look where you are. That's so cool.
04:14
Yeah, thank you.
04:16
So elephant in the room. You're a male nurse. It's one of the things where if you think back to some of the movies, where we don't necessarily see a lot of male nurses, has that changed? Or we're seeing more? Or is it really still more women that are leading the charge?
04:30
I mean, it's definitely still more women. But yes, we are seeing a lot more male nurses in the profession. I've just seen it grow from my few short years, starting and actually on my floor right now there was one day where we could have had an entire side of male nurses and we need like 18 nurses, 17 nurses to be fully staffed and like half of them were like if there would have been another little switch of nurses we would have had a whole side of just male nurses, which I think is pretty incredible just from I didn't think I'd ever see that, but it was just kind of like, yes, there definitely are more males in the profession than there were but definitely still very female dominated, which I'm perfectly fine with.
05:13
Yeah, I love it. I think it's neat.
05:15
Absolutely. Jamie, what do you want people to know about your profession? Do you think the general public maybe makes some assumptions about nursing that maybe you think, you know, you'd be surprised to know this about the profession?
05:29
Yeah, when you said nurses running the organization or running the cares, I was like, Yeah, we are. You know, I think I, we always joke, my husband and I were watching like a medical show like, yeah, that's not really how it works. Like, the nurses are actually doing this. And nurses are actually doing that. I think nurses are absolutely amazing. I remember someone saying a long time ago, like they're just a nurse, and that has stuck with me my entire career, because that we're just, nurses are doing all of the things. They're so smart, they're educating, they're caring for people, they're doing it in a compassionate way. And so really, it's that whole picture holistic care of the patient, but also like running the the unit, running the operations, keeping things going working on throughput, I mean, we, I would say we have our hands on everything.
06:15
And more things as it goes.
06:17
That's right, more responsibilities. I find it interesting, because you're at different stages of your careers. And yet you have these teams and colleagues that you look to every day that truly and Edwin and I were talking even before we recorded about the family atmosphere. I mean, you spend so much time with your teams and your colleagues and those kinds of things. Just from both of your perspectives, could you talk about the camaraderie of a team of nursing, how it works, how you really rely on each other, not only for yourselves, but then for your patients to Edwin, let's start with you, when it comes to like your team colleagues or everything, aren't they?
06:54
They can certainly make or break your day, we actually have this and we're not the only floor that does it, we have this great routine where when we get a new patient on the floor, we broadcast over our Vocera. And they could be this stablest patient on the floor. But we'll be like room tennis here and you'll get at least two or three nurses that come over to help you out. And if you get a really good crew there, you'll have someone that is just like, let me try out your assessment for you just call it out. And then your whole head to toe assessments just done and you got the patient checked in and spend 10 minutes which by yourself, one, you won't even be able to turn the patient safely half the time. So by yourself might take 30 minutes up to an hour just to do everything. And it's just, it really makes your day and when you have that team that is just there to support you. And if you're having a bad day usually got someone around to cheer you up and help and support you and dig you out of that hole you dug yourself in. But it really makes a difference.
06:55
Yeah, I think I mean, it's a game changer for sure. And we talk to our patients about that we asked them, like how is that team aspect? How do we work together to care for you so that we can be keeping a pulse on that, and making sure that we're moving in the right direction with that. But what I hear from nurses, really anyone not just nursing is what keeps you in my job is my team, my co workers. And that camaraderie, the family feel, the community that we have is so important, and not just at the bedside. I mean, it's any-any role anywhere. I feel that too. And my my role as well was my executive team with my director team. It's so important and it makes such a big difference. I have felt so much pride in the team and how we always come together to get the job done. We had joint commission last week, it's an unannounced survey, and I never felt nervous. I was so proud of the team and how they responded. And everyone I mean, again, they come together, they get it done. They do the best thing for the patient. When you have a team that's gelled and you know, they really are hitting on all cylinders. I would imagine that means patient care is going to be even that much better too right?
08:52
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
08:53
I'll be honest, I saw it firsthand. And when I had my daughter at Dublin Methodist Hospital, I was blown away by the nurses who cared for me and my daughter from beginning to end. And I was just like shouting it from the rooftops. This was even before I worked for OhioHealth. But yeah, I remember running into Dr. Gastaldo at an event and I was like, I gotta tell you as a patient, I know I've interviewed you a million times as a news reporter. But I gotta tell you, I had a wonderful experience because the nurses were so fantastic. And some of them were traveling nurses. And you could tell they were you know, unfamiliar with the territory, but it didn't matter. They knew exactly what to do. And I bring up that story to kind of segue to the next question, Jamie, you're also a mom as well. You mentioned getting the job done at work as a nurse and leading your team of nurses but how do you find time to recharge and care for your family while also caring for your patients and your nurses and your team?
09:59
You know, I think it's really important that you figure out what works for you. And I always ask people like, how do you take care of yourself? What do you do for fun, because I'm looking to kind of learn how other people do it to see what the right fit is. And I've tried a few different things. And for me, it's holistically looking at, like, my life, as it's all kind of intertwined. It's not work is separate from home, it's kind of in flux all the time. And we're lucky at OhioHealth. Because they really encourage well being self care, time away. For me, it's really important to disconnect, I take vacation, I don't check my email, I don't look at my phone, work related things, of course. But on the daily, I'm just, I'm really lucky, I have a great supportive husband, we laugh a lot, we make jokes, he tells me I'm not his boss. Don't talk to me in that work voice. So I think just making it a priority, not feeling guilty to really take care of yourself and making sure that you are also setting the example for the rest of your team to be able to do the same thing. And letting them have that same you know, get away disconnect, take care of yourself, put your family first or whatever is your priority.
11:05
Edwin, do you feel like you have that good work life balance, and you're able to do that and do some of those things that Jamie was talking about?
11:12
Yeah I mean, right now, my work, life is a little bit busier than it was in the past. But I definitely have my core group of friends, or we have standing hangout days, like every Tuesday hanging out with this person. And every weekend hanging out these people, I also love to do yoga. So that has a nice little whole body experience to kind of help reset yourself and get a little bit of physical exercise in. So that combination helps keep me balanced, even with as busy as I am.
11:38
I know COVID was so hard for everyone. But the nursing staff was stretched beyond I mean, it was exhausting, and so sad. Now that we've come out of the worst of it obviously has it been you're still in the critical care space, and you take care of sick patients every single day and in your areas, too. But has it been a little more oh, good. We're getting to really dig into what we do with our patient base, not all being COVID, those kinds of things. How has that changed your outlook on just patient care, do you think?
12:17
I mean, I think COVID did a lot of things for a lot of people. And somebody that I know in my personal life was actually just talking about how it helps people think about their priorities and how they wanted to live their lives. And that's been, I think, prevalent in all of our teams. We've seen people kind of making that reevaluation and thinking about what matters to them. And I was actually part of a conversation yesterday about matching, passionate with purpose. And so I think a lot of people have had that, like deep thought around, what do they want to do. And for me, I think that's resulted in having people who really want to be at the bedside and provide that excellent care. It's been a slow journey to get people back to where we were pre COVID, it's probably never going to be like it was exactly pre COVID. But I've been excited recently to be seen more of that passion and more of that kind of commitment and desire to be at the bedside to be a part of a team to be involved in things at the care site. We're not quite you know, we're still rebuilding, but really like a lot of good sprouts.
13:16
Yeah. Have you seen a little bounce back from staff now that were a little more clear of the COVID pandemic that seemed to be what drove us every single day for several years, Edwin?
13:27
I think, yeah, there's been a little bit more of a bounce back. I wasn't actually on the floor that I'm on right now during COVID. But I will say I think there's a sense of relief that now that we're through this pandemic, we generally have all the supplies we need, like, like the PPE that was on a huge shortage during the pandemic, and there's more of a sense of relief, like, oh, we can still provide this care, and do it as safe as possible, because we have all of the supplies. Yep.
13:52
Jamie, you mentioned the perspective shift for a lot of people. Would you say the pandemic was the most difficult point in your career to this point? And if so, how did it change your perspective?
14:04
That's a really good question. Yes, definitely the hardest part of my career, I would also say, you know, there's a part of I want to say a nurse, but I'll just speak for myself that was really like, let's, let's get it done. Let's take care of the patient. What do we need to do and kind of go into that? Maybe a little bit of adrenaline mode, but you know, figuring out what processes do we need to look at? How do we make sure that we have the equipment the best way that we can for people? So, yes, it was very hard, I would say maybe coming out of it was a little more difficult, because then you're rebuilding you people are starting to leave, you're rebuilding, staffing, just getting people through the trauma of what they experienced. And so probably that rebuilding piece has been more challenging than like the actual event itself, which is probably pretty common, but that's where I like think it's exciting for me to see some of those like you guys can't see me like the little sprouts of hope that people are showing now.
15:05
You guys are so deep into the work. I'm curious about how you see not only current state nursing, but kind of future state nursing, too. Can you talk about maybe concerns you have for nursing, kind of as an industry? What challenges are you all facing on an everyday basis, there going to be a lot of nurses that listen to this podcast and say, yeah, that's, that's what we're seeing, too. What do you to see when it comes to some of the major challenges in the nursing industry currently, and maybe future state too,
15:34
I just know, for myself, personally, when I think of nursing, it's actually really rewarding. And when you can see the good outcomes that you help cause for your patient, the one thing that just kind of is concerning, there's a shortage. And then with with social media showing the a lot of the bad sides of nursing, which it's just like, they're not, not every day, you're going to have an event that's gonna go viral. It's just these are the ones that have gone viral, because they're just so crazy. But the thing is, it's actually really rewarding, and you don't have those viral events happen. And it's just like, I just don't want people to shy away from nursing, because they think something bad's gonna happen when like, most of the time, it doesn't serve, sometimes it does, it's, it's a profession where you're taking care of sick patients that aren't always at their best. But the thing is, like, it's also just filled with so much compassion and care for the patient. And when you see them, come back on your unit, after they've gone through rehab, and they're walking again, it's just really rewarding to see the smile on their face. And you're like, I remember you.
16:40
That's awesome.
16:41
Yeah, I love how you share that. I mean, I was thinking this morning, I was driving here, like, some of the things that I wanted to share. And I think that nursing is, I mean, so rewarding, you get to, it's an honor and a privilege, honestly, like, that's how I feel about nursing, you are taking care of people and their most many times most vulnerable moments, you talked about your experience with your daughter, I remember my nurse in the middle of the night, who taught me how to breastfeed my daughter. Yeah, I mean, I just I can remember it so vividly. And I mean, that was a very happy moment. There's also the not so happy moments, but being able to take care of people in those moments is just, it's amazing. It's incredibly rewarding. And I really do see it as a privilege, and the more that we can help people understand that opportunity. I mean, I think the interest in nursing would spike if people could connect those dots around, you know, we talked about moments that matter, and what's your passion? And how do you tie back to your kind of burning platform around why you got into it. If people knew all of those stories, which we're trying to share more of, then I think it would shift even more. Some of the social media stuff is concerning. I know, there was one specifically I was following, and I had to stop because I wanted to be in tune to it. But then I was like, this is just too much. Like very negative things like that. Our, you know, our nursing workforce is obviously concerning, we have a big staffing gap that is getting better. Lots of really great work happening there. But we're gonna have to continue to think about how we provide care, innovatively different care models, things like that, to take care of patients with, you know, the staff that we have.
18:17
Let's talk more about the work being done to restore that pipeline and really boost it. I know, there's a lot of projects happening, innovative work, let's touch on some of those. What are some examples that come to mind.
18:29
For me, it's the partnerships with schools in the community, I think that is one of the most important things that we're doing. And really making sure that everyone has what they need. So making sure that our school partners are getting clinicals in our care sites, that when they're at the care site, we're connecting with them to make that, you know, connection with your leader is really important in connection with the team, hearing from them around what's going well, and where we could maybe be a little bit better so that we can do it differently. Their relationship building and that connection, and I've said that word a lot. But it's really what we hear from students. That's the key. We're doing a lot of really cool stuff with our residency. So we were hearing from our nursing students or our new nurses, I apologize that they weren't necessarily feeling enough support in their first year, they wanted to be kind of like a co part of a cohort where they could have support from a peer group who went through the same thing. And so we have invested in in the residency program, and we are really learning a lot and providing really good support for our new nurses. And that whole first year of their journey. So some really cool stuff happening there.
19:32
You're right with Tolls Technical Academy, we have southwestern city schools, we have a connection with them,
19:38
Dry rivers.
19:39
Dry rivers, there's so many that we've really tapped into and I think that's really smart because we've got to find that next generation. I mean, we have some older nurses that are retiring we've had some that have completely left the business after COVID. And so replacing some of that amazing experience with this up and coming group I think is going to be critically important. Edwin from like, looking at how we attract even younger nurses. What can you say about trying to generate that, that next group that can come in and do the work that you do every single day?
20:11
I mean, to attract and generate, I feel like if we can get more positive social media out there, because that's where are the worlds at today, like every five, if you have five seconds, you'd get out your phone your scroll through, but even just to like piggyback off of the students that we have coming in, like the nursing students, it's really cool. We have so many on our floor right now. And it's just really fun. Because when you're like, Hey, have you seen this before? We're going to around 11 come to room 10, we're gonna do this great procedure or like, have you gone to see this before, go do that, because you just think of all the things that you wish you would have seen in nursing school. And like, it's just so cool. I'm like, I remember going to see a procedure when I was in nursing school. And it was, I mean, it was really simple. And we do them every day at the bedside on my floor. But it was just really exciting. And so when you had those students on your floor that you can, like, maybe they didn't think they wanted to do neuro ICU, which is what I do. You mean like, hey, come watch this. Hey, come watch this. Have you seen this done? Like, it's just really cool to kind of get them excited about all the fun aspects of nursing that even my floor has to offer, any floor has to offer?
21:14
Just hearing you speak about that, Edwin, it sounds like OhioHealth really fosters a space of learning. And when you walk in the door, you're going to continue to learn no matter what stage you arrive at. And do you feel like that's been your experience? You've had these opportunities to keep learning?
21:29
Oh absolutely. I mean, I'm currently working on a master's right now. And then just outside of that, there's always an opportunity to learn something. Whether it's getting a certification or just something new, like how to better use Excel, which we're using more, and I still don't really work at that well. But there's so many resources that OhioHealth has to offer and just to help people learn and grow as a person, and as a nurse.
21:53
I would just add, I mean, we are really intentional to talk with all of our associates to talk about, what do they what are they interested in? What do they want to do? If they're a med surg nurse, and they want to get their critical care? We have kind of a pathway around how do you get there? What do you need to develop around? How can we support that girl to get you to critical care. And that's a more basic example. But really, the world is your oyster, as a nurse, there's so many things you can do. And so the leaders are really, again, intentional about connecting with every single associate to learn what those things are, so that they can make that kind of individualized plan around how they can grow and get to that next step if they have one. Well,
22:26
With this podcast coming out around Nurses Week, we want to thank all of our nurses at OhioHealth, obviously, but this is a week for us to celebrate nurses everywhere, not just within our own system. But no matter where you are, if you're listening to this, and you're on a nursing team, or you have family members that are just know how thankful we all are for the work that nurses do. Our hospitals run so smoothly because of the leadership we have in nursing, but also the bedside nurses that work every single day. And you too, obviously, are very much in our thoughts every day of how hard you work, and we really appreciate what you do. So that's that's kind of the nursing part of this. We do at the end of this always want to do a little kind of get to know you more fun questions. You guys ready to go for that?
23:08
Yeah. All right.
23:09
Let's do it. So let's talk about relaxing and recharging. I know work life balance as a nurse is sometimes very difficult, but when you have some time to adjust, I know you said yoga but what do you guys do to try to go I can breathe a little bit and do what I want to do?
23:26
Well, I have a three year old and so she is really though a lot of fun and gives me a really great perspective on life and what's really important and pure, innocent joy and so it's really just being with her and my husband and and, and our little Corgi being outside as much as possible. I mean, last week it was she wrote her little Jeep all the way down the driveway and back and I mean, just the innocent joy there was. That was my disconnection.
23:51
I love it.
23:54
For me, honestly, it's my favorite days are generally Sundays when the weather's getting nicer. Like now I can pull the grill out and I'm over at my friend's place. And I never thought I'd be the grill person. But here I am grilling us some burgers and broths and just like sitting down on their back patio, maybe having a drink just like relaxing in their backyard. And it's just like, turn your phone off for a while. Listen to some music in the background. It's just so nice.
24:22
Perfect.
24:22
That sounds really nice. I like can almost smell the barbecue firing up right?
24:29
On your phone. I was like yes, like,
24:32
Phone off, but music on.
24:33
It's funny. My phone fell into the manatee tank at the Columbus Zoo a few weeks ago. And it was a moment of like, pure joy. I was like every responsibility I have is tied to that thing. The phone is fine. If you could have done anything else for a career. What would it be?
24:56
If I was independently wealthy, I would love to have a horse farm and that's like my dream. I know it's like totally random. I love animals. So maybe being a vet.
25:03
Yeah.
25:05
I will say back in the day, I had this dream where I was gonna go to school and be an optometrist. I will say, I think I would have gotten a little bored with that. Just like better one or two, two or three.
25:22
I love the one or two.
25:24
If you had to pick one, which one is just a hair better.
25:27
I like always say can you go back to two? I kind of like one better, you know,
25:31
But yeah, that's, that's it
25:33
I didn't know that was standard. I thought that was just for me.
25:36
Yeah, so that was, that was my original plan, but I just think this is so much more rewarding. I'm glad I'm glad I went this path.
25:43
Yeah. Yeah, I think you chose right. How about a high school superlatives? They always had those like, best dressed or coolest pair? I don't know. What would your high school superlative be?
25:55
Well, my actual one was most changed. Really? Yeah. Because I went from I was a real fat kid back in the day, and I was not when we graduated. So I got that one, which is kind of cool. And like, look at that it did something.
26:09
Oh, man, I don't know. Most likely to be married to somebody who makes me laugh every day. Oh, that's a good one. He's crazy, too. But he does make me laugh.
26:19
It's so important. This one I wanted to steal from an icebreaker that they gave us when I was onboarding at OhioHealth during orientation. And it was one that our whole table really struggled to answer so not to put you on the spot. But what's one fashion trend you wish would go away? Or what's a fashion trend you'd like to see come back?
26:42
I mean, if you can, you can make it work. Own it. I mean, having a daughter. I don't love the tiny shorts. Yeah, I can see all of the things.
26:56
Family friendly podcast that works.
26:58
I like bell bottoms. I would be cool. If they came back there. They kind of did for a minute or like any of the 90 stuff. I mean, I grew up in the 90s so
27:06
I nothing if you want to wear it, wear it do what you want to do. I just can't believe mullets have made a comeback. Oh, yeah,
27:12
No way.
27:14
Yeah, they're I mean, they're not quite as like wild as they were. But they're definitely. And I'm just like, You know what, if you want to do it, sure. I will never do it. I
27:23
I will say you're talking to a kid who grew up in Texas in the 90s. And I had a mullet. I'm not gonna lie. Maybe I'll grow up. My wife would not go for that. No way she sees pictures of me and as embarrassed.
27:37
That's funny.
27:39
Well, this has been awesome. You guys are so great. And we're so proud of the leadership that you bring to your group, Jamie and Edwin, just the work that you at the bedside do every single day. I mean, it is game changing. It's life saving. And so kudos to you and your teams, and really all of the nurses. You really are our heroes. And we really appreciate the time you've given us for this podcast, too.
28:03
Thank you so much for having us.
28:04
Yeah, thank you.
28:05
Yeah, well, we thank you for joining us for this episode of the wellness conversation and OhioHealth podcast. Before we wrap up, we do invite you to follow us on all our major social channels staying up to date on new episodes and other health and wellness topics. And if you're looking for more information on OhioHealth services and locations, it's very easy just go to ohiohealth.com.
28:25
The information in this episode will also be available in written form on the OhioHealth wellness blog, you can find that@blog.ohiohealth.com Thanks for joining us and be sure to subscribe as we continue our exploration of important health and wellness topics with OhioHealth experts